Biola UniversityThis week:
“Jesus Bots” & AI Spirituality: Sean and Scott discuss a New York Times piece on religious chatbots, raising concerns about me-centered faith, shallow “AI Jesus” advice, and how tech may distort spiritual formation.
UC San Diego’s Education Crisis: A Wall Street Journal editorial reveals that 1 in 12 UCSD freshmen can’t perform middle-school math, prompting a conversation about grade inflation, DEI pressures, COVID learning loss, and the need for academic accountability.
AI & the Decline of Critical Thinking: An Atlantic article sparks discussion on how people increasingly outsource decision-making to AI, rewiring their brains, avoiding discomfort, and creating new forms of dependency.
The New Singlehood Dilemma: The hosts unpack cultural mixed messages—society simultaneously pushes people to find a partner and to celebrate being single—leading to confusion, shame, and loneliness.
Listener Question – Tattoos & Piercings: Sean and Scott explain that Old Testament prohibitions were tied to pagan rituals, meaning tattoos today are largely a wisdom issue rather than a moral one.
Listener Question – Guns in Church Security: They discuss self-defense biblically and practically, concluding that armed security can be appropriate when trained and focused on protecting the congregation.
Listener Question – Devotionals for Teens: Recommendations include reading Scripture together or using teen-friendly devotionals, with Sean mentioning his book A Rebel’s Manifesto as a helpful cultural guide.
Episode Transcript
Sean McDowell: [upbeat music] Should Christians use and trust the new Jesus bots? The crisis of education in which one in 12 college students cannot do middle school math. Is AI changing the way we think, and thus undermining basic human skills? And the new singlehood dilemma, in which singles are simultaneously told they should seek a partner and yet celebrate their singleness. These are the stories we will discuss, and we will also address some of your questions. I'm your host, Sean McDowell.
Scott Rae: I'm your co-host, Scott Rae.
Sean McDowell: This is the Think Biblically weekly cultural update, brought to you by Talbot School of Theology, Biola University. Scott, as always, man, we've got some interesting stories, and we're gonna start a little bit light with this opinion piece in The New York Times about Jesus bot. The title is "Jesus Bot Is Always On Demand," and then it says, "For a small monthly fee."
Scott Rae: [chuckles]
Sean McDowell: So this opinion writer, who's Jewish, spent a week talking to three different religious chatbots about struggles and questions: Bible Chat, Christian AI, and what's called Text with Jesus. Now, this person is not doing an experiment on the quality of the scriptural analysis. The person's like, "I'm Jewish and have minimal knowledge of Christian doctrine." Fair enough, but it turns out the majority of Americans are Christians and have a Christian background, so she's trying to get a sense of what advice are these chatbots giving to people who identify as Christian. One, called Text with Jesus, invited her to, quote, "Delve deep into the lives of biblical figures and seek answers to life's most profound questions in real time." So far, so good, but what she found was, let's just say, far from-
Scott Rae: [chuckles]
Sean McDowell: ... The depth and profundity that's promised. I thought this was interesting. She, she describes how the version of Jesus that's depicted looks like he stepped off the cover of a romance novel-
Scott Rae: [chuckles]
Sean McDowell: ... And speaks more like a management consultant, where he gives canned guidance, with just a dash of scripture thrown in there. So she tells Jesus she's spending too much time on her phone, and he says, quote... Now, when I give this quote, this is coming from a bot that says it's speaking [chuckles] for Jesus. So imagine Jesus saying this: "Start small. Pick one clear change, such as a phone-free morning. Turn off non-essential notifications. Schedule social time into your calendar so it's balanced with real-life relationships, and replace scrolling with one nourishing habit, like prayer, reading, or a brief walk." And then Jesus encourages her to celebrate wins and to f- make God first in her life. Fine. I guess you can pay more money to then engage other biblical characters beyond a paywall. So she starts to ask Christian AI, this is a different system than Text with Jesus, about being anxious. It says, "You need more credits," which are things you clearly buy to have this. Now, I guess, there was a study, I wasn't able to look it up, by the Gospel Coalition, and they evaluated the top seven mainstream secular AI platforms on how theologically reliable they are. So they kinda took a deep dive at that one, and they got a score of 64 out of 100, which is a D, just for the record.
Scott Rae: [chuckles]
Sean McDowell: Now, a couple other quick things-
Scott Rae: And no grade inflation here?
Sean McDowell: Yeah, that's fair enough. We're gonna get to that story coming up. Good, good connection. So basically, she says, after spending a week on this, the chatbot, she says, is very transactional. It becomes tailored to our needs and our desires. She says it becomes me-centered, that the faith isn't just about chatbots, but it's about thinking about and praying for and focusing on yourself, which she points out contradicts the human flourishing program at Harvard that says the most happy, well-balanced people are those who don't think about themselves. And she says there's just a total lack of the divine. Like, how could a chatbot like this inspire awe? What's your takeaway of the Jesus chatbots?
Scott Rae: [clears throat] Well, here's my... I got several things that-
Sean McDowell: Okay
Scott Rae: ... Stood out to me on this. One is I've always thought, maybe I missed something along the way, but I've always thought that my spiritual life was to counter the cultural trend toward personal autonomy-
Sean McDowell: Mm-hmm
Scott Rae: ... Not reinforce it.
Sean McDowell: Yep.
Scott Rae: And I think this, and the, describing this me-centered faith, which, a couple of people that the author cited point this out as a generational shift. I don't, I don't, I actually don't think that's anything of the sort.
Sean McDowell: Oh.
Scott Rae: I think a me-centered faith has... A privatized faith has been a part of the landscape for some time.
Sean McDowell: Okay.
Scott Rae: But I just w- I wonder how this fits, 'cause I... You know, it's interesting, [chuckles] can you imagine Jesus saying this?
Sean McDowell: Right.
Scott Rae: When he actually said, "Deny yourself,"
Sean McDowell: [laughing]
Scott Rae: "Take up your cross, and follow him."
Sean McDowell: Exactly.
Scott Rae: Or the, you know, "The person who seeks to save their life will lose it." You know, "What does it profit someone to gain the whole world and lose their soul?" You know, those are the things that Jesus actually said. And I wonder, you know, w- and Solomon describes this in Ecclesiastes, in his own, his own search for self-fulfillment. In Ecclesiastes 2, he goes through all these things that he did. He wanted to accomplish his bucket list. It was all about I, me, my, mine, is repeated, like, 15 times in 10 verses. And what I've discovered, he, you know, he says, you know, that that's futility, it's vanity. And I think what he recognized is that the search for self-fulfillment, if focused on the self- ... Is ultimately self-defeating. Ironically
Sean McDowell: [chuckles]
Scott Rae: And, you know, the danger, I think, in s- in these Jesus bots is as the article points out, it becomes tailored to your own needs.
Sean McDowell: That's right.
Scott Rae: And the, [chuckles] you know, we've, we've pointed out in the past, there's the sycophancy pheno- phenomenon is raising its ugly head again. And Sean, I think this wor- this works further toward the privatizing of one's faith. You know, I think worship and connection with Jesus is great in private, but it's also designed to be done, I think, I think primarily designed to be done in community-
Sean McDowell: Amen
Scott Rae: ... Interac- in interaction with real people who have messy, you know, who have messy lives, so join the club.
Sean McDowell: And she brings this out. As a non-Messianic Jew, she's making that point.
Scott Rae: That's right. And so there's just- there's no substitute for that. And I, you know, I d- I don't think this is the way the spiritual formation emphasis, it was designed, and I... This is definitely not the way we teach it at Tal- [chuckles] at Talbot.
Sean McDowell: [laughing]
Scott Rae: But I do think one of the unintended side effects of our m- greater emphasis on spiritual formation is this sort of me and Jesus thing-
Sean McDowell: Yeah
Scott Rae: ... Alone.
Sean McDowell: I agree.
Scott Rae: Because, you know, think about it. If somebody asks you, Sean, "How's your spiritual life?" What, what do they really wanna know?
Sean McDowell: That's an interesting question. [clears throat] Am I happy? Am I doing okay? How do I feel? I mean, certain people would be like, "How much are you going to church, reading your Bible?" Some people would have objective metrics, but I think... I don't know, I-
Scott Rae: I-
Sean McDowell: What, what are we getting at? [laughing]
Scott Rae: I think, I think mo- I think most people, when they ask that, wanna know, "How's your time alone with God?"
Sean McDowell: Okay, yeah. Fair enough. That's how we gauge your private time with the Lord.
Scott Rae: That's, that's-
Sean McDowell: Yes, I-
Scott Rae: ... The primary metric-
Sean McDowell: Yeah, I agree with that
Scott Rae: ... For that. And that, I mean, if there, if there's any more evidence of faith being privatized, you know, that's, I think, a good indicator of it.
Sean McDowell: Well said.
Scott Rae: Now, they also point out that even morality is being recasted as personal preference and autonomy- ... Which, of course, got my attention. So, and Sean, this is, this is old-school moral subjectivism- ... And ethical egoism sort of combined in a, in a, [chuckles] I think a pretty volatile package. Which, I, you know, this works well until you're a victim of injustice or until somebody wrongs you in some way. Then you become... Everybody becomes a thoroughgoing deontologist, where morality is a matter of principles, and the vi- the violation or the oppo- It's, it's, in my view, it's the, "That's just wrong" view of morality. And now, there's nothing new about that culturally, but Christian faith is supposed to run counter to this view of morality, not to reinforce it. And they also point out... One other takeaway from this that really stood out to me, they point out, really [chuckles] sort of a profound grasp of the obvious: the transcendent is absent from these bots.
Sean McDowell: Yeah, that's right.
Scott Rae: How could that not be the case? Because they aren't transcendent. [laughing]
Sean McDowell: [laughing]
Scott Rae: That's not what they are.
Sean McDowell: Shouldn't be surprised.
Scott Rae: Don't be expecting that. And then the other thing, I'd be i- curious to hear your thoughts on this. I wo- I'm just w- I haven't thought about this all that much, but I wonder if and when this becomes idolatry.
Sean McDowell: Oh.
Scott Rae: I think that's a possibility- ... Where you worship a substitute for Jesus under the guise of connecting with him and worshiping him himself. I'm not, I'm not gonna go to the stake for that-
Sean McDowell: Yeah
Scott Rae: ... But I think it raises a question- ... Because these things are- they're gonna get more real, they're gonna get more authentic, they're gonna look... They're gonna feel more like approaching transcendence at some point. And I think we're, we're gonna have to answer that question at some point.
Sean McDowell: I think my concern would be, is it a false gospel? So under the name of Jesus, using things that Jesus said, but a prosperity or a self-help or a false gospel, which can become-
Scott Rae: A ther- a therapeutic gospel
Sean McDowell: ... Or a therapeutic gospel, which can become a kind of idolatry. So I think that would go along with your concern. I don't know the answer to that. I'm gonna have to think about that a little bit more.
Scott Rae: Yeah, and I'm, and I'm not, I'm not giving a dogmatic, you know, stance one way or another.
Sean McDowell: Well, we can ask the chatbot-
Scott Rae: But
Sean McDowell: ... And see what-- I'm kidding.
Scott Rae: [chuckles] Yeah.
Sean McDowell: I have two thoughts that jump out for me. One is, I think about what Marshall McLuhan famously said, that "The medium is the message." So we have the content, the gospel content, and some of that comes through, but the medium by which-
Scott Rae: Si- 60%.
Sean McDowell: Some- yeah, whatever percent-
Scott Rae: Yeah
Sean McDowell: ... Definitely lacking some. But the medium of, say, a personal conversation versus the medium of a book, like, how something is communicate affects the message. So I've talked to a lot of people about Christians using things like TikTok. It's an entertainment, dance-
Scott Rae: Mm-hmm
Sean McDowell: ... Means that's fine for its own, but when you have-- you're laughing at a cat video and then you see a serious scripture video, the medium itself shapes how we process this. And we evangelicals jump on the quickest mechanisms to get the message out, sometimes without reflecting upon how the medium itself shapes the message. And this is a medium that my concern is that it, the difference in my mind of when it's called Text with Jesus, [chuckles] that's the n- the name of it. And as much as I'd like to think, "Well, I keep my artificial intelligence separate from my real life," how many of us have raised our voices at Alexa and said something like, "Alexa, what's the weather?" And it's like we're mad- [laughing]
Scott Rae: [laughing]
Sean McDowell: ... But we're talking to a machine.
Scott Rae: Yeah.
Sean McDowell: Why are we mad? Because it makes us blur a little bit real and fiction. Sometimes I catch myself, I'm like, "Why am I yelling at a computer? There's not a person there." I'm just frustrated or tired or whatever. So it blurs this with Jesus-... And I think about we have the message of the gospel, and God speaks through the medium of angels, through prophets, through nature, through conscience, through scripture, through the person of Jesus, through the Holy Spirit. Now we're adding chatbots to this. Is that a medium? How does it affect the message? We don't have to answer that, but we better think about that and be very clear how it affects the message of Jesus. The other thing, and this one would take us totally aside, is you and I just recorded, we're gonna post it in a few weeks, about your book, Virtues of Capitalism, and one of the questions at the end was, "Are there things that we shouldn't sell in a capitalistic society, things like prostitution [chuckles] or people and slavery?" Well, this struck me as, like, if Jesus saw this, how would he respond? Would he be like, "Oh, amazing. Yeah, now I can speak with all these people as if it's me"? Of course not. I think he'd have more of a reaction of cleansing the temple, of like, "Wait a minute, this might have good intentions behind it, but it's technology gone amok. Maybe this isn't the kind of thing that should be sold." And I realize somebody's like, "Well, you write Christian books and sell them." I'm not saying you can't make a profit-
Scott Rae: Right
Sean McDowell: ... Selling things tied to spirituality. This just strikes me as bumping up against, "Oh, you want more spiritual goods? Now you gotta pay more." I think we're crossing a line of selling things we shouldn't sell. Anything else you wanna add to this one or disagree with that take?
Scott Rae: No, that's a really good insight. [clears throat] and I think it's, it's basically it's selling the transcendent. And should the transcendent be an object for purchase and sale on the open market? Assuming that you can actually do that, you know. Now, or sell- maybe selling the pseudo-transcendent would be a better way to put that.
Sean McDowell: Yeah.
Scott Rae: And which-
Sean McDowell: Yeah
Scott Rae: ... Which I think raises my concern about, you know, what... Are we doing something here that is counterfeiting the gospel? You know, producing a su- a substitute for the real thing that I, you know... I guess I'm, I'm not oppo- I'm not opposed to something that will help people get into God's Word a little bit better or to help them, you know, maybe connect with, you know, connect with some, you know, with some of the- one of these bots that will maybe propel them toward a greater connection with Jesus-
Sean McDowell: Sure
Scott Rae: ... In real life. I think if, you know, it can be a good starter thing. If it becomes the thing that their spiritual life revolves around, then I think we've got a, we've got a different set of issues to talk about.
Sean McDowell: Fair enough. Good take. Well, that- this story actually ties somewhat incidentally to our next story. This was a commentary piece in The Wall Street Journal by Ben Sasse, who's a former senator from Nebraska-
Scott Rae: Yeah
Sean McDowell: ... And former university president.
Scott Rae: Met, met him when he was on campus here a couple years ago.
Sean McDowell: Oh, I didn't even know he was on campus.
Scott Rae: Had, had lunch with him and-
Sean McDowell: Oh, no way
Scott Rae: ... You know, the, you know, President Corey and some others of the cabinet. Had a great time with him. He is a great-
Sean McDowell: Thanks for the invite, Jeff [chuckles]
Scott Rae: He is a, he is a great brother. [laughing]
Sean McDowell: [laughing] No, I'm kidding.
Scott Rae: Well, it wasn't my invite to make.
Sean McDowell: I know. I'm just playing.
Scott Rae: Uh-
Sean McDowell: That's awesome. He was here. That's great. And the title is, "UC San Diego and the Crisis of Education," and the subtitle is, "When 1 in 12 freshmen can't do middle school math, that suggests America is in trouble." So the number of freshmen entering the University of California, San Diego, by the way, for those who don't know, is a very prominent, respectable, difficult-to-get-into university. My father-in-law went there, in Southern California, part of the UC system.
Scott Rae: Considered a West Coast Ivy.
Sean McDowell: A West Coast Ivy, okay. There's... He says, "At this university, whose math skills fall below when a number of freshmen, a high school level, has increased nearly 30-fold over the past five years." What do they mean? "One in 12 entering freshmen have math skills below middle school level." So this morning I'm reading this, and my junior high son is across the room, two doors away, can hear me yelling at him.
Scott Rae: [chuckles]
Sean McDowell: I said, "Hey, son, I'm curious. Finish this math problem for me." He's 13. I said, "Seven plus two equals six plus blank." He was probably three seconds, he goes, "Three." He got it pretty quickly. Well, apparently, one in 12 freshmen at UCSD have difficulty answering that kind of question. Now, when I told that to him, I said, "Shane, apparently, one in 12 freshmen can't answer this." He goes, "That's impossible."
Scott Rae: [chuckles]
Sean McDowell: "Like, that's ridiculous." He was almost offended by it. Now, Sasse says the mass failure is a result of three intersecting crises as he sees it. First, and, furtherest down- furthest downstream, is that a highly selective college could admit so many young adults who are so tragically unprepared. That's one thing that he gave, and his solution to that is we need to bring back things like the SAT, which are standard tests. I totally agree with that, and there should be continued courses for students in college if this comes up, to remedy it. But the second root cause, he says, are scarier. He said, "On average, these students are receiving A grades in high school math that supposedly has multiple years behind algebraic and arithmetic foundations. This was a fraud. High schools have clearly been inflating grades beyond what many students earned or deserved." and he... And then he's like, "How is this happening in a state, California, that emphasizes accountability?" Now, he's a politician, so he goes after Governor Newsom. We don't have to have that political debate here, but that's his concern, is saying there's a political edge to this. We need accountability. And as a whole, he also says the San Francisco Unified School District has been intentionally teaching a less rigorous math since 2014 on the ridiculous claim that math is racist. So he's concerned with kind of a DEI push behind it as well.... And a serious public school should be paying attention to a crisis of this scale." Now, the last thing he says, just so we understand how serious he takes this, he says, "The Cold War, Sputnik 1957, and a Nation at Risk '83 educational crisis were big alarm bells. The UCSD canary in the coal mine might be bigger. We need to address this." What's your takeaway?
Scott Rae: Well, Sean, the looming question is, will AI make this worse? And it's not just math that's affected. Now, I think you- one of the reasons your son got that is he goes to a good school, but he also has a w- he also has a wife who's a math teacher. Uh-
Sean McDowell: He has a mom who's a math teacher. [chuckles]
Scott Rae: A mom. Yeah, I mean, you have-
Sean McDowell: My wife, yes. [chuckles]
Scott Rae: You have a wife, yeah. But it, but it's also reading, writing, critical thinking, problem-solving. I suspect, I could be wrong about this, but if the-- if UCSD explored these other areas, they would find pretty similar results. In fact, I think maybe the results for writing probably would be worse.
Sean McDowell: Oh.
Scott Rae: And reading comprehension- ... Might be worse than that. And the ironic thing is that, you know, critical thinking, problem-solving, not just math, but being able to write and write well and clearly, in addition to character, which is a sort of... That's another matter, but these are the things that employers tell us they value the most-
Sean McDowell: That's right
Scott Rae: ... In their potential employees. And so the point that Sass makes in the, in the editorial is we are set-- We're not only setting them up to fail in college, we're setting them up to fail in life after college. So that's, that's my pressing question. I d- I don't, Unless, unless we really come to grips with the use of AI in education, and to put serious guardrails around that so it's not abused, I think that the temptation for AI to do more- ... Than what we, what we want it to do will be irresistible. Because, you know, it's, it's one thing to have a, you know, have a chatbot that... Which we'll get to this in the next story, which we will-
Sean McDowell: We will, yeah
Scott Rae: ... Produces a, you know, a study guide instead of the answers. You know, the temp- Of course, if you ask for the answers, it'll give you that, too. But the temptation to stop with the study guide and not go all the way to the answers, I think is already proving to be irresistible. And I am not optimistic at all, and I suspect you share s- this skepticism, that the companies have any incentive to put meaningful guardrails around the use of AI technology.
Sean McDowell: In my life, you're older than I am, I've heard these kind of concerns about education as long as I can remember. So in some ways it feels like, okay, get in line, there's always some new study. I don't know how pivotal and significant this is, but I suspect there's more to it than a lot of people might be willing to give credence to it, and the reason is because of a number of factors coming together at the same time. [clears throat] One of them is Covid. We're still seeing- ... Studies come out about how damaging that was, in some states more than others. And in some ways, we also got the curtain lifted up on [chuckles] how not great the educational system was. That was a piece of it, but in particular, just the effects of Covid on this generation are lasting through high school and through college and beyond. So these college freshmen, you know, since Covid was roughly five-ish years ago, they're in junior high school, that really had an upsetting effect-
Scott Rae: Right
Sean McDowell: ... That dominoed through. I think some of the DEI efforts... Now, he gives the example of San Francisco, which is not going to surprise us. I don't know how much that-
Scott Rae: Yeah
Sean McDowell: ... Seeped down into all of California and beyond. I know I've read some of the standards were there, but how much that was pushed in the daily classroom, I'm a little skeptical.
Scott Rae: But that has affected the, some colleges going away from the SAT and ACT.
Sean McDowell: Because the SAT is racist-
Scott Rae: Is race- racially biased
Sean McDowell: ... Et cetera. Yes. Instead of fixing the SAT, they got away from it-
Scott Rae: That's right
Sean McDowell: ... Motivated by certain DEI concerns, and I think we're seeing the negative effects of this. I totally think that, as far as not why the educational system is bad, but how these students got into UCSD-
Scott Rae: Right
Sean McDowell: ... Because their schools are giving them great grades, and yet what do those grades actually mean? There's no standard way to compare school A with school B. I... There is often built in education, I've seen this. I taught at a private school, but had been-- but have so many educational friends, and I'm at high school and have been to all the conferences, and there is so... It's so much easier to pass a kid. It looks better on the grades that you get for your assessment. You don't have to deal with parents. You don't have to deal with the administration. There is an incentive often built in to just pass a kid on, let somebody else deal with it, so there's something structural built in that I think is a problem with this. I agree with you that you'd find this not only more at UCSD, but I partly... I don't know a ton about why UCSD released this, but part of me, from what I understand reading it, is good for them for being able to do so.
Scott Rae: Yeah, good on them to do that.
Sean McDowell: And saying, "Hey, this is a problem with us." It's not only the rest of the programs, arguably, of students, say, in writing. This is other schools. So if it's one out of 12 at UCSD, my suspicion, which is a [chuckles] great school, is it's a lot worse at many, if not most, other schools.
Scott Rae: Yeah, a couple of things on this. Sean, I remember when I was a TA, as a doctoral student- ... I did, I did a significant amount of grading, though I was, I did not assign final grades or anything like that, but I did a significant amount of grading for the prof that I worked for. I remember [chuckles] one student on the, on the midterm exam-... Came to me, I'd given him zero credit for one, long essay question, and he was so in- he was so offended that I didn't give him credit for writing something down. Because everyth- almost everything he said in his answer was wrong and was diametrically opposed to the right answer that he was supposed to get.
Sean McDowell: [laughing]
Scott Rae: But he was expecting credit for actually having put forth an effort to write something, so something down. Now, I think some of this, you know, we c- I think grade inflation, we've been talking about this for some time. But, you know, and I think it's driven by, you know, pressure to get into elite colleges. Which I think is actually a bit, a bit overrated, and because if you're going into elite colleges for which you are increasingly underprepared or unprepared, we're setting people up to fail. Parental pressure, you talk about dealing with parents, although I admit one of my most pleasant experiences with a parent calling me- ... About their son was, this is a student who showed up, showed up the first day of class and the last day- [laughing]
Sean McDowell: [laughing]
Scott Rae: ... And did none of the work. And came begging my co-
Sean McDowell: Oh, gosh
Scott Rae: ... My co, my co-instructor and I to give him, you know, a week to do a semester's-
Sean McDowell: Unbelievable
Scott Rae: ... Worth of work, and that day his mom called.
Sean McDowell: Wow.
Scott Rae: And I was expecting the worst, and do you know what she said? She said, "Throw the book at him."
Sean McDowell: Good for her.
Scott Rae: "Don't let him... Do not-
Sean McDowell: I love it
Scott Rae: ... Do not under any circumstances- [chuckles]
Sean McDowell: I love it
Scott Rae: ... Let him get away with this."
Sean McDowell: Sign her up, man.
Scott Rae: And I thought, "This is awesome." now, I think there's, there's also... I think students have expectations.
Sean McDowell: That's true.
Scott Rae: They're, I-
Sean McDowell: That's very true
Scott Rae: ... They're entitled to high grades for min-
Sean McDowell: Yep
Scott Rae: ... For minimal work.
Sean McDowell: Yep.
Scott Rae: And I think I'd want, I, you know, good grades are earned, not an entitlement for showing up.
Sean McDowell: Should be, yeah.
Scott Rae: And, yeah, should be. Now, you know, and I wonder- ... If it might have something to do, I'm just thinking out loud on this one, but it might... Does this have something to do with the postmodern notion of truth being less objective? Because they're call- the s- the students are, I think, increasingly calling into question the objective standards that we put on them for grading, and I don't know if there's a connection on that or not. Uh-
Sean McDowell: I would have to be convinced on that one. I think people... We've seen that in philosophy. We see that in the humanities, less so in the sciences, let alone math, since it's math that drove this. I'm not convinced most kids, most kids are gonna look at math through that subjective lens. I'm open to it-
Scott Rae: Let's, let's hope not
Sean McDowell: ... But I would-
Scott Rae: Yeah
Sean McDowell: ... I'd be skeptical.
Scott Rae: Yeah, and I think we also need to... We need to call this for what it is, too. Grade inflation, I think, is in part laziness on the part of teachers and professors.
Sean McDowell: Totally. I agree with that.
Scott Rae: So and this, I will- I think it remains to be seen. It'd be interesting to see if other schools will do a similar investigation like this.
Sean McDowell: I hope so.
Scott Rae: I hope they do. Uh-
Sean McDowell: I would love Biola to do it. I have no idea. I can't speak for anybody, but why not? It would be helpful to know.
Scott Rae: It'd be very interesting to see.
Sean McDowell: And you kind of lead other universities by setting the standard. One quick point that jumps out to me is it's so easy for parents to outsource our education, and yet Scripture seems to place it first on the family, like the Shema, right? In Deuteronomy 6:4, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord God with all your heart, your soul, your mind, your strength. And these words I command you today, shall be on your heart. Teach them diligently to your children. Talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise." Now, you might say, "Well, that's just spiritual education," but I think it's more than that. I had a lot of parents when I taught at-
Scott Rae: Quite a, quite a bit.
Sean McDowell: Yeah, exactly. I had a lot of parents when I taught at a Christian university feel like, "Well, Sean's gonna fix them, [chuckles] teach them the faith." I'm like, "It doesn't work that way."
Scott Rae: [laughing]
Sean McDowell: So all right, we'll keep our eye on this concerning trend, but I think it relates to our next story, Scott, which you sent me. This is now from The Atlantic. We went from The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, to The Atlantic, and I was hesitant at first 'cause there's a lot of articles about AI. Yet when I read it, I thought, "Oh, this might be something fresh." The title is "The People Outsourcing Their Thinking to AI," and she interviews this person named Tim Metz at the beginning. "Just as we've come to rely on GPS to get around," which is true for me-
Scott Rae: Absolutely true for me
Sean McDowell: ... "this 44-year-old content creator fears he's becoming dependent on AI. Uses it up to eight hours a day, multiple systems." So now it's for grocery shopping, taking photos of the fruits to ask if they are ripe. Worried that a large tree near his house might come down, so he uploads a photo of it and it asks, you know, one of the chatbots for advice. So the concern is that this is reshaping our brains, being dependent upon AI, and this term I hadn't heard before is, it's L... It's lemmings-
Scott Rae: [laughing]
Sean McDowell: ... Because of what a lemming is.
Scott Rae: L-L-L-E-M. [chuckles]
Sean McDowell: But then large language models.
Scott Rae: Yeah, yeah.
Sean McDowell: It's very creative, and, in other words, it has the image of kind of a cybernetic lemming unable to act without guidance. So, and this guy, right, he goes, "This is like a real addiction." So you wonder if some kind of addiction to this language is coming. How does it affect the human mind? This one I thought was really interesting. This guy found his brain was af- defaulting to AI when he was trying to help a woman retrieve her AirPod, which had fallen between the seats on the train. His first thought was to ask ChatGPT for a solution.
Scott Rae: Unbelievable.
Sean McDowell: Can you imagine? Like, just let that settle in. So how much, just as like-... You know, we could talk about the Protestant Revolution, the technology of books shaped that. Technology of cars shaped things. Calculators shaped arithmetic skills. How much are we being shaped by this new AI skill, and it, are we putting off critical thinking? And he says, "The human brain," she says, "likes to conserve energy and will take available shortcuts to do so." I don't know how much that's the brain versus it is human nature and character, but the point is well stated. So is this reshaping our brains? What... There's more, there's a ton more in this, of concerns, but what's, what's your takeaway?
Scott Rae: There's one thing, maybe this is the business ethics in me-
Sean McDowell: Okay
Scott Rae: ... That stood out on this, but the statement that the article made, that dependence is the business model for AI companies.
Sean McDowell: Oh, man.
Scott Rae: That, that was the major takeaway, and they described the OpenAI's effort. The, the CEO of ChatGPT said their goal is to have 200 million subscribers to the platinum version-
Sean McDowell: Oh, man
Scott Rae: ... Of ChatGPT. And basically, the bottom line here is, Sean, the more people rely on AI for their personal and professional lives, the more these businesses stand to gain.
Scott Rae: This is why I have... I am extremely skeptical about the companies putting serious guardrails on this to prevent the kind... And I think that's right. The guy that you described at the beginning, I think that's right to call that an addiction.
Sean McDowell: Mm-hmm.
Scott Rae: 'cause if, certainly if somebody was on social media like that, we've used the same terminology for that.
Sean McDowell: Yep.
Scott Rae: And now, I admit, programming within the chatbot's periodic suggestions for breaks, that's, that's a good thing.
Sean McDowell: Sure.
Scott Rae: I would call that a Band-Aid at best, but a good thing.
Sean McDowell: Exactly.
Scott Rae: And the s- the, what they describe, I mentioned this a minute ago, the study mode that they describe for step-by-step guidance in learning new concepts instead of giving them the concepts-
Sean McDowell: Mm-hmm
Scott Rae: ... Themselves, that's, I think that's helpful. But Sean, my first thought, I thought that's what teachers and professors were supposed to do- ... Is give them a step-by-step guidance to learn new k- that's sort of, that's like- ... Job one of what [chuckles] teachers and professors are supposed to do. And if in the event, which is almost always the case, that AI will give you the answers if you ask, it will give you more than a study guide. I think the, it, this is proving that that's just, that's just gonna, that's gonna be im- almost impossible to resist for people. Now, the other thing that I thought was really interesting is that they're finding that AI bots are proven to be more seductive than social media.
Sean McDowell: Yes, that's right.
Scott Rae: And sometimes people, even for these obvious questions-
Sean McDowell: Mm-hmm
Scott Rae: ... Will plug in the question to ChatGPT or another one, because this is really because they are unwilling to sit with s- discomfort for things that they don't automatically have answers to. We've become... The, and that's, that's the part that's, I think is really rewiring the brain, is our unwillingness to sit with, the fact that we don't have answers right always at our fingertips. That's just, you know, you know, that's just not reality, that- ... You know, because some things, some things require thought, and reflection, and simmering on the back burner. And they, you know... In fact, I would say the things that matter most require that the most.
Scott Rae: So there's, I mean, there's just [chuckles] there's a lot here that is, that in my view, is really unsettling.
Sean McDowell: That, it's, that's a great take. I had some similar reflections to that. I think the business angle, that they... And you think about how much AI have invested, millions, billions, I think trillions of dollars at stake here.
Scott Rae: It, it will be trillions before too long.
Sean McDowell: There is as much incentive to hook people on this as social media companies had their business model. So people would say, "What's the product in social media?" And they'd say, "Well, you are, and I am." What's the product in this? It's us, and the more time we spend, the more entr- you know, entries we give, the more money they make, and so I think you're right about that. So on one hand, you think we've learned more about how negatively social media uses the brain to hook us and addict us, but they've also learned more from what social media did well as a business plan and are going [chuckles] to apply it-
Scott Rae: Exactly
Sean McDowell: ... More. At the same time is just, it's scary and bothersome on so many different levels. Couple things jumped out to me about this, trying to think biblically, is when I think about AI, I really try to think about, what are things that I just do that I can use AI for more effectively, where I don't lose my humanity? Because we turn things like thinking into an instrumental good, where thinking itself has an intrinsic good because we're human. And so at what point am I turning over something that I just should do and is good for me because I'm human, to a machine? And I don't always know the answer to that, but that's where I wanna hit pause and go, "Okay, wait a minute. I'm sacrificing something." And of course, that stems from us being made in the image of God to function a certain way relationally with others and our environment. So the way I frame the question, and I need to narrow this down, is kind of this question:... What are things for which we lose some of our human dignity and our relationships suffer when we use AI? And I don't have the answer to that, but that seems to be a question that's-
Scott Rae: But that's a, that's a really helpful criteria.
Sean McDowell: It's trying to guide as I think about this. So, it- yeah. So, so when, you know, this person says, [chuckles] you cited this earlier, Scott, "This person in their 20s feels, finds herself asking Claude questions she knows the bot can't answer." I think, well, why? Is this an addiction? Does she not have people in her life to ask? Can she not sit with the question? That is an instance, based on what I know, that's robbing her of something good in her life, and the AI, I would argue, is dehumanizing her. That's my concern. The other thing that jumped out is when, you know, they said this guy who's talked about in the article is like, "I'm taking a month-long break from AI." What do we call that? A Sabbath. [chuckles] Like, most of-
Scott Rae: Yeah
Sean McDowell: ... The solutions to AI, even though the technology wasn't there, are just built into biblical disciplines and lives from creation. There's nothing new under the sun. So instead of leaning into some new magical solution, what the Bible says about a Sabbath time, about relationships, about what it means to flourish, these things actually work, and they're good for us.
Scott Rae: But we already have, you know, cell phone fasts that people use.
Sean McDowell: We should have cell phone- [chuckles]
Scott Rae: Yeah, yeah. Well, I think, but I think some-
Sean McDowell: Yeah
Scott Rae: ... You know, we've, we've read about some people employing that.
Sean McDowell: Yeah.
Scott Rae: And I think an an AI fast would be something similar. Now, I don't have... Of course, I don't have a problem with using AI to do certain things that, you know, help make us more efficient with our time. You know, and there's, you know, I don't think there's any problem, you know, with, say, using AI to write church bulletin announcements or, you know, my son-
Sean McDowell: You plug in the info-
Scott Rae: Yeah
Sean McDowell: ... And it arranges it in a way.
Scott Rae: Yeah.
Sean McDowell: Yeah, I don't have a problem with that.
Scott Rae: And there's, I think there are a number of things that that's helpful for. And I think even, you know, even with students, you know, if, you know, to help generate ideas, to prime the pump. But I think, remember, once that, once the process gets started, it's y- I would have an end goal where I'm gonna stop in view before I actually get started. And I think that's, that's, that's an important guardrail that we can put up. And I wonder, you know, the part about rewiring the brain- ... That's, the, you know- ... That's a lot to think about. And I wonder, so, you know, the guy who's, you know, sitting eight hours a day with it, I think there's some of that rewiring has already taken place. And I wonder if sometimes we recognize that this is happening when it's almost too late to correct it. That, that'd be the really troublesome part. Now, we know the brain can also be rewired-
Sean McDowell: That's right
Scott Rae: ... Through-
Sean McDowell: It's plastic, is the term we use.
Scott Rae: Yeah, through-
Sean McDowell: Yeah
Scott Rae: ... D- through different habits. So I wouldn't say that that's necessarily a lost cause.
Sean McDowell: Sure.
Scott Rae: But I think, I think that would take, you know, that person you described, that would take an extraordinary amount of effort-
Sean McDowell: Yeah
Scott Rae: ... To wean them, himself off of that dependence on AI. And the companies don't want you to do that, and they're not, they're not building in anything that would incentivize you to have any sort of, control over it.
Sean McDowell: It's, it's not just that they're not building in stuff to have control. They're building in stuff so you don't have control. [chuckles] It's even stronger than that-
Scott Rae: Yeah
Sean McDowell: ... Which I know you agree with. All right, so this last article you sent to me, Scott, super interesting. It's called "The New Singlehood Stigma."
Scott Rae: [chuckles]
Sean McDowell: It totally... It's the kind of article I read, and when I was done, I was like, "Oh, that makes sense," but I hadn't quite thought about it like this. And this individual, this is in The Atlantic, so it's, it- one of their longer essays. The person starts by saying, "To be clear, this is the best time in American history to be single, for both men and for women. But Americans are still extremely weird about single people. The problem isn't just that singlehood is disparaged. Sometimes it's singlehood is celebrated, relentlessly-
Scott Rae: [chuckles]
Sean McDowell: ... Annoyingly celebrated." So she argues that partnership is still a priority. It hasn't disappeared in this country, and we could think of ways in the church and beyond that that's the case. But there's this counter impulse, a reaction to all the kind of injustice to people living in a partnered world that are not, a kind of public cheerleading for singlehood. Single celebrities seem pressed to make statements about how much they love solo life. Therapists advise embracing one's single status with phrases such as, "I'm focused on myself right now." And she argues that it's the 21st century single woman who has more pressure than the man to show her contentment. She needs to show that she slays and she's tough as nails, so to speak. Well, she's like, "I talk with a lot of singles who are happy, enjoy their life, are content, but also yearn for partnerships. These things are not mutually exclusive," which I love this point. "So when you want a relationship, not having one can feel lonely. Feeling like you shouldn't want one makes you feel lonelier." This is a really key point, Scott, that when you're told, "Oh, it's okay to have a partner, but you should celebrate singleness. You shouldn't even want anything but singleness," and it's like, "But I want a partner," it makes you feel more alienated in her mind. Says a couple things here. Let's see here-... She said, "It is odd that the pursuit of romance carries any shame in 2025, when online dating requires that you make a profile and kind of announce that you want a partner." There's, like, attention built-
Scott Rae: [chuckles]
Sean McDowell: -into that, and this line jumped out to me. It said, "The culture tells us simultaneously we should be in a couple and that we should feel whole all by ourselves. We should have a partner, but we shouldn't want one." And then her last line, it says, "If I could go back," I think she's now in a relationship, or go back to her younger self, "I wouldn't tell my friends that it's all going to work out or that they don't need anyone. I'd say, 'You're perfect,' and that this is hard being single." What do you, what do you make of this?
Scott Rae: Well, the first thing that stood out to me is that notion that we should have a partner but not want one. [chuckles]
Sean McDowell: [chuckles]
Scott Rae: And I read that a little bit differently. Maybe that, we should have a partner but not obsessively need one. Because, in my experience, the best partners are those who are content being single- ... And who are content with where their life is. And, you know, the Bible tells us to be content with whatever our station is, in life is, 1 Corinthians 7, because we have Jesus. And I think some churches, I think... In fact, I've heard this in some churches, where they say that marriage completes you, which I think is a, is a dangerous concept because, you know, in fact, when I heard this preached in my church, I was sitting next to a couple of single women who wrote, one of them wrote a bold thing in their notes that says, "So I'm incomplete?" And that they were, they were right because they were reflecting on Paul's admonition that we are complete in Christ. You know, end of story. And I think we, you know, m- I'd, I'd wanna view marriage not as a destination, but you're just, you're just acquiring a traveling partner along the way. And I think we, I mean, I think there is a sense in which marriage is sort of, it has historically been a rite of passage. I don't think that's true anymore. And I think the other thing that stood out to me, Sean, was that lots of people who are celebrating singlehood are single because they're looking for someone amazing- ... Who will fall into our lap. They, they don't, they d- you don't wanna have to go out looking, you don't wanna have to put yourself out too much. And I would, I think we have baptized this notion in our churches, where I'd say be careful of the misconception that there's one right person for you.
Sean McDowell: I- Amen.
Scott Rae: And I think in Genesis 1, it's that it's not that Adam and Eve were right for each other, but it was that male... They represented the male and female of the species, and male and female, generically, were right for each other. You know, I had [chuckles] I, my mentor when I was in seminary told us about a student who had come to him with a three-page list of all the qualities he was looking for in a wife.
Sean McDowell: Three pages?
Scott Rae: Yeah, and you know what? The prof, he s- he st- he stood him up. [chuckles]
Sean McDowell: Wow!
Scott Rae: And he said, "You know what he..." 'Cause you know what he asked him?
Sean McDowell: "Do you match that list?" [chuckles]
Scott Rae: He says, he says-
Sean McDowell: Would be my- [chuckles]
Scott Rae: ... "Son, how many of those qualities are true of you?"
Sean McDowell: I love that.
Scott Rae: And I remember I had, I had a friend who, you know, he knows better now, but I remember he said... You know, he was single at the time. He said, "You know what I- well, actually, what I'm looking for is somebody who looks like one of the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders with a PhD."
Sean McDowell: Good luck with that.
Scott Rae: And I, and I said, "Dude, you don't look like one of the Dallas Cowboys." [laughing]
Sean McDowell: [laughing]
Scott Rae: And then-
Sean McDowell: And you're struggling-
Scott Rae: Yeah
Sean McDowell: ... To get an undergrad degree.
Scott Rae: Yeah.
Sean McDowell: [chuckles]
Scott Rae: So, you know, I think maybe, to think Biblic- think a little bit biblically about singleness, I think Paul affirms it as a good thing, and I think at times, at times, more pru- a more prudent option than marriage.
Scott Rae: And there, you know, there are reasons for this. We've talked about that. We've talked about those before. But I remember when I was a singles pastor, and that's... I've, I've got- this is, this was a pet peeve of mine for a long time. But I remember speaking on this to my singles group, and one smart-aleck guy who was... So, so I said, you know, I, and I said basically all the stuff about why singleness is esteemed, and so he says, "So why did you get married?" And guess who was sitting right in the front-
Sean McDowell: [chuckles]
Scott Rae: ... Who was all of a sudden listening really carefully? [laughing] And, and I said, "The re- there are two reasons. One is because I chose not to live without her." And I said, "But the main reason was is that we as- we evaluated that we could serve the kingdom better together than we could separately."
Sean McDowell: Amen.
Scott Rae: And, and I r- I remembered recognizing that, it changed how I approached all the premarital counseling I did because most couples we talked to had never thought about that question.
Scott Rae: And- ... It was a question we raised in all our premarital counseling from that point on. So I think that the, you know, the Scripture has some good things to say about singleness. I will say that, you know, the sing- it's a good thing, and but for me, for myself, nothing has, nothing has compared to marriage to chip away sort of those rough edges of my character. Nothing else. Now, friendships are great for that, but there's nothing like-
Sean McDowell: Not this podcast, man. I mean, I try.
Scott Rae: You have worked so hard at it. [laughing]
Sean McDowell: [laughing]
Scott Rae: I'll give you a modicum of success.
Sean McDowell: I'm not even close, and it shouldn't.
Scott Rae: No.
Sean McDowell: That, that's well said.
Scott Rae: Right.
Sean McDowell: Good, great takeaways from this. I try to read some of this and go, "What's the worldview and assumption behind it?" I don't know ab- know a lot about this author beyond this piece. Actually, I don't know anything about this author beyond this piece.... Nothing's mentioned about God. Marriage and singleness seem to be viewed through the lens of, like, what makes me happy, and what kind of life do I want to live? And that kind of reflects larger societal views that are taking place here. We wanna celebrate singles. Why? Because that's what the person has chosen for themselves. That's their authentic route. We should celebrate that. But on the other hand, we kind of recognize that society needs marriage. We recognize that marriage is an objective good, and so in some ways, this article, this tension that I think this author brilliantly points out, is a result of some of the underlying inconsistencies in the worldview of our culture-
Scott Rae: That's a great insight
Sean McDowell: ... That is so individualistic, but we also recognize we need others, and we want others. So that's the lens through which I read this. You're absolutely right to bring it to 1 Corinthians chapter 7, which biblically, Jesus is single, Paul was single, and then marriage is held up. But really the question is what you said, is what is marriage for? It's not for my self-actualization. It's not primarily for procreation. It's not primarily for companionship. It's not primarily to find myself and be happy, although all of those things come [chuckles] with it ideally and are important. It's really Ephesians chapter 5. It is identifying, or you might say, pointing towards the character and love of Christ for the church. So this is kind of like, "Get married if you're happy." That's how our culture looks at stuff, and a Christian should say, "No, s- that's not the primary reason I get happy," although when I got married, I'm like, "I hope this makes me happy, and I wanna make my partner happy," and I am happy being married. Studies show that people who are married-
Scott Rae: That's right
Sean McDowell: ... Are objectively happier. Bradley Wilcox has laid that out. But what is marriage for? Marriage is for, in the beginning, procreate, fill the earth, and then Paul brings it full circle in Ephesians 5 and says, "Oh, this is a pointer towards Christ's love for the church," which we see culminate in the end of Revelation. It's a model or kind of a mirror or a pointer towards how much God loves us, and if we as Christians don't bring that transcendent view, we'll fall into the trap of this article that's like-
Scott Rae: Yeah
Sean McDowell: ... Just kind of do what makes you happy.
Scott Rae: You mean marriage isn't ultimately about me?
Sean McDowell: [laughs]
Scott Rae: [laughs] I think it's ultimately about something much bigger- ... Than the individual or the couple. That's, that's a great insight on that. I'm glad you brought in Ephesians 5 on that. Very appropriate.
Sean McDowell: Well, we've got some questions here, and, before we jump in, I just wanna remind folks that this is brought to you by Talbot School of Theology, and we would love to have you come study with us online or in person in theology, apologetics, marriage and family, Old Testament, New Testament, philosophy and ethics. Think about studying us, with us part-time or full-time. All right, Scott, we got some questions here. One is asking our perspective on body modification in the form of tattoos and piercings. So the passage Leviticus 19:28, "You shall not make any cuts in your body for the dead or make any tattoo marks on yourselves." They have many bearing on Christians today. What about 1 Peter 3:3, about not letting your beauty be external, the braiding of your hair, wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes?
Scott Rae: I think, those two passages, I think, cite two different things.
Sean McDowell: I agree.
Scott Rae: And I think the 1 Peter 3, I think is a... That's something different, I think, than what this au- what this listener has in mind-
Sean McDowell: Yep
Scott Rae: ... About piercings and tattoos. And the reason those were prohibited under the law is because they were associated with idolatrous worship practices.
Sean McDowell: Yep.
Scott Rae: And I say that, I mean, it's possible that that could be affil- associated with that today, but I don't think that's the normal case. I, you know, there are lots of different reasons why people get tattoos and piercings. I don't have the stomach for either of those, so I'm not, I'm not worried about that. But I do think we... You have to, you have to think about why did the Scripture prohibit these? And is that same thing in force today? So I would see this in most cases as a, you know, no harm, no foul. And I guess somewhat morally neutral.
Sean McDowell: Fair enough. My question is more on, like, how much does the tattoo cost? Why do you want the tattoo? What kind of tattoo? Where is the tattoo? More a question of wisdom, even knowing that our bodies are a gift from the Lord, and they're a temple of the Lord. Those are the more primary questions-
Scott Rae: Right
Sean McDowell: ... I think we should ask. Leviticus 18... 19, I agree with you, is not directly relevant. All right, we got another one here. Somebody's asking us to help them think biblically, which I love that it's worded that way.
Scott Rae: I appreciate that. [chuckles]
Sean McDowell: That's what we're, we're trying to do here, about churches having members acting like security guards and carrying handguns during the service. So this person describes going to a Latino church in Texas with good theology and doctrine, but knowing the gun situation makes this person uncomfortable. And would to- but yet would totally understand if in Nigeria, Christians under threat were being slaughtered, seemingly carried a weapon. But I don't get it in North America. What's your sense?
Scott Rae: Well, I think this is okay in my view because it's, it's proactive. I think the fact that we're in Nigeria is, uh-
Sean McDowell: We're not in Nigeria
Scott Rae: ... A little, I mean, we're not, yeah. It is less relevant because, you know, we know that there have been shooters who have come into churches and other places of worship, to do harm to people, and I think that's good stewardship and being responsible- ... On the church's part to be proactive in protecting worshipers-... And ensuring that churches are safe places of refuge- -for people to come. I would say, however, it only with proper training, and I would, you know, I would not, you know, I would not put just anybody in there who's got a, who's got
Sean McDowell: Agreed
Scott Rae: ... Concealed carry permit. You know, I would, I'd want somebody who maybe who's had a career in law enforcement, maybe or who's retired or, you know, someone like that, who knows what they're doing and is well-trained- ... To do this.
Sean McDowell: I- part of the debate is Christians on all sides are in agree we don't want things like school shootings or church shootings or violence. Is the best way to get there with less guns or with more people armed? And really, we need to look at the facts for that if we're called to protect other people, and that goes way beyond the case we can make here. But speaking for myself, especially after the Charlie Kirk assassination, I've spoken on a number of college campuses. I have a few coming up this spring. I speak at churches. And I don't... I mean, I'm, I have a different level of platform than Kirk did, but you better believe there's increased concern there, and I've received different threats. So when I walk into a church in Oklahoma [chuckles] or Texas, and it says people might be armed, I actually feel better. I'm like, "Great, if there's a shooter here, I actually feel much safer personally knowing that people would protect me if necessary, and of course, others."
Scott Rae: One more thing.
Sean McDowell: Yeah.
Scott Rae: This, this does want us to, want us to think biblically about it. So, biblically speaking, you know, the Bible's clear that individuals have rights of self-defense. Now, that's clear from parts of the Old Testament. For example, when the, when the walls of Jerusalem were being rebuilt after returning from exile, Nehemiah required half the people who worked on the project, the other half were armed, protecting them. And i- when the, in the Book of Esther, when the, when the Jews were under threat of genocide, they had-- they were given the right to arm themselves and to engage in the necessary self-defense. So biblically speaking, self-defense is not out of bounds, and taking measures to do that. Now, the means, as you described, that's a, that's a different issue if this is the best way to do that or not.
Sean McDowell: Sure.
Scott Rae: That's different, but the right of self-defense, I think, is pretty clearly biblically established.
Sean McDowell: Good stuff. Love it. This last question is about a devotional for a 15-year-old son. He asked for a daily devotional or scriptural study as a Christmas gift. "Can you give me some suggestions?" Honestly, I don't specifically know the best one. I haven't written one. For a 15-year-old boy, I mean, two books... I- you and I try to be hesitant to kind of hawk our own stuff here, but when it's helpful and appropriate, willing to throw it in there. I wrote a book called A Rebel's Manifesto, and the rebel approach, I think, appeals to many young boys. That's really the 15 to 17-year-old range that I wrote it for. It's not a biblical study, but I take cultural issues of the day and apply scripture to them. How do we think biblically about these issues? Short chapters that you can talk with your son about would be one of the most important things. The other thing I would do is, I don't know that I'd just necess- if he wants to learn scripture, the best way is just get into scripture. Start with a book. For a while, I was reading the Gospel of John every morning with my son, who's 13, and we were just talking about it chapter by chapter. Do that. Get into an easy part of the Bible and talk with him about it, would be my suggestion.
Scott Rae: You know, I-- just in preparation for this, I looked on Amazon.
Sean McDowell: Nice!
Scott Rae: And there were dozens of these. And some of them, you could tell by the cover, were, you know, were for younger kids than,
Sean McDowell: Yeah
Scott Rae: ... Than for teenagers. But there were, there were a whole host of these for teens, and I would say, you know, go spend a few bucks, buy a couple of them, check them out, and see if they fit what your child needs.
Sean McDowell: Fair enough, and you can even send out an X or ask people on Instagram and crowdsource. I know they're doing that with us here, but, hopefully, that helps some. Scott, as always, a lot of fun.
Scott Rae: Great stuff.
Sean McDowell: Looking forward to next week. This has been an episode of the podcast, Think Biblically: Conversations on Faith and Culture, brought to you by Talbot School of Theology, Biola University. We have master's programs, full-time and part-time, in theology, Bible, apologetics, spiritual formation, and so much more, online and in person. To send your comments or ask questions, please send them to us at thinkbiblically@biola.edu. We'd be honored this year if you'd take a moment and write a review on your podcast app. That actually, every single review helps us more than I can express. And consider just sending this episode to a friend. Some of the best compliments we get, Scott, are when people say, "You know, I share this with my son or my dad, and we talked about it." In the meantime, remember to think biblically about everything. [upbeat music]
