What do Americans believe about the Bible? How often do Americans read the Bible and in what ways? And what theological beliefs do evangelicals hold in comparison with the broader society? In this discussion, which is also available as video on Biola's YouTube channel, Sean and Scott discuss two recent studies: The State of the Bible 2022 and The State of Theology from 2022.

Episode Transcript

>> What is the state of the Bible in the United States in the year 2022? What is the state of theology? What people believe about God and Jesus and the Bible and other big theological topics? How are Americans actually engaging the Bible? Or maybe better yet, how are Americans not engaging the Bible today? How has that changed over the years? We answer these questions and more in our discussion on the state of the Bible and the state of theology in 2022. Two surveys that have been done very recently that have been published that have some very interesting information available to us. I'm Scott Rae, your host, here with my cohost Sean McDowell. This is "Think Biblically." So Sean, tell us a little bit what these two studies are actually about. The State of the Bible on the one hand, State of Theology on the other.

>> See, the American Bible Society did a pretty comprehensive study of what Americans believe about the Bible, how they're engaging the Bible, and how it affects the way they live and the way they don't live for 2022. And then Ligonier Ministries in partnership with Lifeway did a study on the State of Theology in 2022. So this is more what Americans contrasting with self-proclaimed evangelicals believe about the person of Jesus, salvation, the Bible, et cetera. So you put them together, we have a pretty good sense of what Americans believe about the scriptures and how that shapes their theology and their life.

>> So let's start with the State of the Bible first. What do we learn from this about why Bible engagement matters?

>> Well, if we take a step back and just ask why Bible engagement matters and look at scripture, I think we find a few reasons why. And number one, and this comes out in the study, is that those who study the Bible have better theology. Now that shouldn't surprise us as a whole, but that matters 'cause when we look at-

>> I'm actually glad to hear that.

>> Yeah, that is good to hear as a whole. But that matters 'cause scripture has a lot of teachings about knowing theology, studying the scriptures, like the Bereans are held up as an example in Acts 17, studied the scriptures daily. So those who study it have better theology. So if we care about good theology, we should care about people studying the Bible. Second, when we look in scripture, Psalms 119:11 says, "I've hidden your word in your heart that I might not sin against you." So scripture talks about knowing scripture so we can avoid sinning. And we even see Jesus when he is tempted quoting scripture against the lies that come from Satan. So knowing scripture in our hearts is meant to shape the way that we live. Third, I would argue, just studying the Bible helps us know God better. Now, God is not just intellectual. Even demons have good theology. But good theology is necessary to understand and learn truths about God, to know him better. But what also came out about this was a question that said, "Have you ever made a personal commitment to Jesus that is still important in your life today?" 54% of adults said yes, yet fewer than 1/3 of Gen Xers, millennials, and Gen Zers are now practicing Christians. So a lot of people who say they've had an experience with Jesus, less than 1/3 are now practicing. So there's a disconnect. And I would argue one reason, not the only one, often embedded with that is bad theology about God, about the scriptures, about the nature of salvation. So that's just a few reasons why Bible and good theology matter.

>> Let me pursue this just a little bit further if I might, 'cause the study also connects human flourishing with engagement with the Bible. Can you unpack that a little bit? What does that contribute to our flourishing? Obviously knowing God helps us flourish, but I think there was more to it than that in the study.

>> Yeah, so the State of the Bible took what's called Harvard's Human Flourishing Index. And these are just ways that humans, of course, across Christian convictions, relationally, psychologically, materially flourish. And compared those who study the Bible with this index. And an interesting conclusion, they said, are there higher scores among those who read scripture regularly and let it deeply affect their lives? They said, yes, substantially higher. Now, the one area where those who are Bible engaged did not score higher was in material or financial success. So if you think reading the Bible is gonna give you prosperity, practically speaking, you might think again, even our concerns with that theologically.

>> But there goes the prosperity gospel.

>> Sean: There you go.

>> And rightly so.

>> Rightly so. But what's interesting about this is we're often told that Christians are bigots and hateful and homophobic and dangerous to society. Well, this study seems to suggest that actually reading the Bible and taking it to heart makes somebody a better neighbor. Now, we don't have to go into all the reasons why, but why would somebody flourish better? Well, the Bible says don't be anxious about anything. Trust the Lord. It says, love your neighbor. It talks about life is not just about me, but it's about living for others and living for God. So it actually makes sense and it's nice to see the data backing up that people flourish, according to a secular metric, those who engage the Bible. And now some people could say maybe it's those who flourish who most read the Bible. And it is hard to prove causation, but if the Bible gave the other negative effect, we'd expect to see that. So minimally we see the strong correlation, which I think is pretty significant.

>> Yeah, I think there's anecdotal evidence for this too. I once heard someone say in sort of in response to the culture seeing the Bible as a threat to people's wellbeing, that if you were walking down a dark street late at night and you saw two people, two sort of unidentified figures coming toward you, would you be more or less comforted to see that they were carrying Bibles under their arms?

>> Sean] [laughs: Exactly.

>> I would be significantly comforted by that. And I think most people would.

>> I think that's well said. And let me read a quote. This is on page 102 of the study, which page 102 shows us how extensive this study is. It's available online. It says, "This year's report shows clearly that scripture engaged people make better neighbors. They care for people in need. They take civic duty seriously. They realize they don't know everything and they admit that in conversation. They serve others in a variety of ways." That's pretty significant.

>> So the actual humility that comes out is an empirically recognizable trait. That's really encouraging because the conventional wisdom is that people who take the Bible seriously are rigid and unbending and think they know it all and often are arrogant when it seems like maybe the opposite is more predominantly the case.

>> That's what it shows. Now, if the assumption is that you believe in natural marriage, that makes you a bigot by definition, then I plead guilty. There are certain truths we can't compromise. But caring for those in need, treating people charitably, being good, thoughtful neighbors, you see those characteristics arise substantially higher in those who have a high level of Bible engagement.

>> That's pretty encouraging stuff, I would say.

>> Sean: I agree.

>> So let's talk a little bit more about how Americans are actually engaging the Bible, because I'm sure that exists on a pretty broad spectrum.

>> Yeah, there's not a lot that surprises me. I would've assumed it was most on a smartphone, it was most digitally, but that's not necessarily the case. Now in terms of reading the Bible daily, 10% of Americans say they read the Bible daily, only 10%. Most adults though, use print. But we're seeing that shift with Gen Zers, which makes sense. Women are more engaged than men. African Americans are the most engaged ethnic community or group. Younger generations are less biblically engaged. But education and income made little difference in engagement.

>> Interesting.

>> Which kind of surprised me. You'd think the more educated somebody would be, the less they would engage the Bible according to a certain narrative. But that's not actually the case.

>> That's very interesting 'cause you would think that the assumption is the more educated you get, the more secular you become and the less impactful your religious views in general are, not to mention the Bible in particular, but not so fast.

>> Sean: Exactly, exactly.

>> So that's the how and I think that shift is helpful to recognize. But why is that shift important in how people are engaging the Bible?

>> Well, that, why it's important, number one, you just wanna know as believers. But we also see, again, back to the Harvard study, that those who study the scriptures are much more positively good neighbors and just living differently. We're seeing that. So we should be aware of this. But what concerns me, again, what's fascinating is we see a 10% drop in Americans who are in that high Bible engaged category, which equals out to about 26 million Americans. Now that is a huge drop.

>> That's a lot of folks.

>> That was from 2021 to 2022. Now, anytime I see that radical of a statistic, I've gotta look again and say, how are they quantifying this? What exactly is going on? I don't wanna be an alarmist. So you cut that in half, cut down to 10%. The bottom line is we see a shift as a whole in America to less Bible engagement. So that in the reverse says, will that affect the kind of neighbors that we are? Will that affect mental health? They even show, they talk about trauma in this study and those who have undergone trauma studying the scriptures has a positive effect on how they process trauma. So if we just care about the health of our society, we should care about Bible engagement.

>> Now I suspect that most people when they come to the scriptures don't think about these reasons for why they engage the Bible. I suspect what you mentioned earlier, it has a lot to do with becoming closer to God, knowing him better. But I think, I suspect there are other reasons besides that for why people engage the Bible. So what does the study tell us about the reasons for why people are engaging the scripture?

>> Yeah, so there are two reasons that are highlighted. 41% say it brings me closer to God. The second most common one was comfort. Now, if somebody goes to the scripture because of comfort, fine. The Psalms are written in part, I think, to comfort people who are hurting. We believe in a relationship with God. Jesus said in John 17, "This is eternal life that you may know the one true God." Which again, is not just good theology, it's a relational knowing. But both of these are about, it brings me closer to God, it brings me comfort, which we're back to what Christian Smith said, that most Americans approach religion in terms of moralistic, therapeutic deism. That God is distant.

>> And you're gonna spell that out, right?

>> Yeah. The idea of deism is that God is distant and then therapy is that God is about making me better and just living moralism a certain way. So the top two reasons are not because God commands me to. It's not so I can know God better. It's not so I can teach good theology, or so I can be holy, which are more God centered reasons, you might say theocentric. We're approaching the scriptures as a society, as a whole, and even as evangelicals through the lens of kind of an anthropocentric view. So part of me says whatever it takes to get someone in the Bible is good, but that approach concerns me a little bit in how we're even opening up the scriptures and says even those who are reading it, maybe we're missing some of the bigger reasons that should be at play.

>> So it's okay for it to be partially about B, but not entirely. I mean, I'm with you. I'm glad that anybody's engaging the Bible for whatever reason, but you know, strictly for my own benefit as opposed to being more God centered. I think that's a helpful corrective because, I mean, I do not wanna be preaching a gospel of moralistic therapeutic deism.

>> Exactly. And by the way, what's the greatest commandment? Love God and love others. So I should approach the scriptures primarily to learn what it means to love God and love others. If that gives me comfort, great. If that draws me closer to God, great. But that shift is not insignificant.

>> Yeah, it seems to me that that's a really important point because, you know, once my faith becomes all about me, I'd say we've lost not only something really important, maybe we've lost the heart of it. Because this is not, you know, the whole spiritual journey is not ultimately about me. It's about God, what he wants for me, what he's commanding.

>> Sean: Exactly.

>> So that I can represent him in the world in accurate ways. So if... I guess, what does the study show about, you know, the people who have become disengaged from the Bible, that 26 million who are out of that category into a different one, which I think suggests that they're still movable. You know, it is possible for them to move back into the Bible engaged category. But what are the reasons why they have become disengaged? I would think if I were a pastor or a church leader, I'd be pretty interested in that.

>> Agreed. The study is interesting, but also somewhat obvious, like this should be clear. The number one is, I don't have enough time. Right? That's the top reason. Now, part of me, a former athlete, when I gave an excuse, my coach would say, "Suck it up, get there on defense, figure it out. If it's important to you, you'll find a way to get the play done." We make time for what's important. We make time. So when I hear people say, for the most part they don't have enough time, my deeper concern is why not? And there is a way to make time if it's important for us. I guarantee everybody who said that makes time for other things that are more important to them. So in some ways, we've gotta do deeper, more basic work of showing why the scriptures are important to life, to both Christians and non-Christians. But it also shows that we are busy, et cetera. But the second reason was that people said, I don't know where to start. Now that makes sense. The Bible is a complex book. You start in Genesis, by the time you get to Leviticus, you don't know what on earth is going on if you make it that far. But here's the irony. When people say they don't have time, they don't know where to start, we've never had more tools available to study the Bible. So for example, again, we can do a whole podcast on this. There's great podcasts that people listen to and follow. I'll give a shout out to one called "The Listener's Commentary." It's daily Bible commentary, wonderful teaching by a friend of mine, John, who hosts it. I listen to that if I work out, I listen to that when I'm driving almost daily. I like to use Logos Bible Software. And in that, there are certain apps and technologies to listen to the Bible, to study the Bible. So we've gotta find time-saving effective ways and practical, easier ways to get people into the scripture if these two stated objections are really the objections at play.

>> Yeah, I think the idea that it's hard to make time for it is, that's a harder one to sustain today because we have so many different ways to do this.

>> Exactly.

>> And you know, there's nothing wrong with listening to the Bible while you're exercising or while you're driving. You know, we can multitask and that's okay. It's the other one that I think if I were a pastor or a church leader that would really get my attention is people not knowing where to start. And there's where I think we have an opportunity in the local church to give people enough of a grasp of the big picture of the scripture so that, you know, wherever they land, they know within the big picture where they are. They've got a little bit of their bearings within that. One of the things we've tried to do with our students here at the undergrad level is to give them enough background and enough of what's in each book of the Bible so that wherever they land, they can situate themselves and read it then profitably. But that's a big ask for somebody who's not been to a place like Biola. Or, you know, or whose churches don't teach sort of regularly through the biblical text. So what advice would you have for pastors and church leaders about how to better orient people to, you know, to get a good start wherever they are in the Bible?

>> Yeah, I would say we've gotta give people not 50 tools, but two or three tools. So give people good Bible podcasts, introduce 'em to good YouTube channels, helpful people to follow on social media. That like find the tools that are out there that are reliable, easy to use, make 'em available to people. That's step number one. The other thing is, if I was teaching a series in the Bible, like I'm going through Mark, I would have a Bible reading plan for people. So for example, let me take a step back and use something like Ephesians, right? Six chapters. As somebody studying through that, I would tell my congregation, find 15 minutes a day. Read the whole book of Ephesians or listen to it as we go through this book, which might take, I don't know, three, four, five months depending on how in depth you go. And then that repetition is how they learn. That matches up with what you're teaching. So practical tools and just the lowest cookie, you know, on the lowest shelf where people can practically do it. I just find we don't do that well and I'm not sure why.

>> Yeah, I think that that's really helpful. I remember for years, you know, Walk Through the Bible, did their seminar. That's another great tool.

>> It's a great tool.

>> That is still out there. 'Cause you can get your bearings in the big story of the Bible in one day.

>> 100%.

>> So I think they, yeah. And my advice to pastors would be, you know, whenever you land in a passage of scripture, orient your congregation to where you are in the book.

>> Context.

>> Yeah. And yeah, just the broader context of the book as a whole.

>> Good.

>> Alright. Now what are some of the main things that come out of this study? And then I wanna turn to the State of Theology.

>> Okay.

>> But some of the main things that come out of the study on the State of the Bible that you're particularly encouraged about.

>> Yeah, I love this question because I'm always thinking that while I'm reading it. 'Cause it's easy to feel the sky's falling and be negative and we evangelicals are like, the world is against us sometimes. We just do. Here's two things that jumped out. 64% of those who fall in the category of Bible disengaged are curious about the Bible and Jesus. 2/3 say they have a level of curiosity. She mentioned earlier about those 26 million who moved out of it. They're not saying we reject this, we hate this, it's false, we're angry, we're close minded. They're not saying any of those things. 2/3 of people are open. So I think in my conversation, in my social media posts, whatever it is, how do I get content out there that kind of scratches where somebody's being, you know, itching, so to speak, and engage that curiosity? So that's positive. Our culture as a whole is not close minded to the Bible and to Jesus. Second thing, which was cool, is Gen Zers, probably roughly 10 to 25 years old right now, are more positive about the influence of the Bible than millennials, probably 25 to lower 40s. So while we're seeing Bible engagement drop, that doesn't mean those who are less engaged have a negative view of the Bible. We actually see increased positive views. So those are two good signs I think we can hang our hat on.

>> Yeah, those are both pretty encouraging stuff to know that the people who are disengaged with the Bible are not necessarily disengaged with questions and matters of Christian faith in general. And that's, I think, very encouraging. All right, to the State of Theology. This, I think, might be a little different story.

>> Sean] [laughs: Yes.

>> So give us, what's the one or two main takeaways from the study on the State of Theology?

>> Okay, so they're asking questions to Americans, evangelicals, or at least those who describe themselves as evangelicals in the sense of holding biblical authority, believing in evangelism, belief in Jesus is the unique means of salvation, and that we should be concerned with the conversion of others. That's how they define an evangelical. Contrast their stated theological beliefs with non-evangelicals, whether they're non-evangelical Christians or just other Americans. And this is where some of the takeaways are positive again, some are just flat out concerning. And I don't wanna be an alarmist, I really don't, but some of these jump out at me and I don't know what to do with this. So for example, we'll start with Jesus and God. The idea that Jesus was a great teacher, but he was not God. 43% of the non-evangelical community agree with that. Fine. 30% of evangelicals agreed with that. I'm thinking, wait a minute.

>> Scott: Yikes.

>> Now that, by the way, actually, let me restate this. I actually got that, I got that wrong. It was 30% of evangelicals in 2020, 43% of evangelicals in 2022. So a 13% increase in two years according to their study. So there's a few questions. Why did it increase so much? You know, and is there some room for statistical error? That's always important to ask. But whether it's 30% or 43% or half that, these are self-proclaimed evangelicals who don't recognize that Jesus is God? Are those people in our churches? Like that sign of something so central to the faith, confusion about the identity of Jesus, that's a pretty big red flag to me.

>> I'd say, yeah, they're not quite clear on the concept that Jesus didn't actually leave us that option.

>> He didn't, in the scriptures.

>> Think about himself like that. All right, well, what about their concept of God? Where, what is it, what do we know about that?

>> Here's what's interesting came outta the study. That God accepts the worship of all religions, including Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. In 2016, 48% of evangelicals agreed with that. That's basically half in 2016, 6 years ago. That's concerning alone. In 2022, 56% of evangelicals agreed that God accepts the worship of all religions. 56%. I mean, there's at least 100 verses in the New Testament that talk about Jesus being the only way to God. And we see things like in Acts 10, where Cornelius, a God fearer must believe in Jesus. So that's a pretty concerning... And what that does to me is that makes me wonder, how many self-proclaimed evangelicals really understand why Jesus died on the cross for sin, and is in fact the only way. That's concerning to me.

>> Is there material in the survey about views of the atonement and views of salvation?

>> There's some on salvation. So again, the key point on salvation that's raised is just that God accepts the worship of all religions. I'm not sure they nuance different views of the atonement on the way you and I might theologically be concerned. But the key takeaway was just that God accepts the worship of all religions, which is concerning. Now, I guess when you get to the atonement, one thing that intersects with that is the view of humanity. Because why did Jesus have to die for sin? And what this shows is the claim that everyone is born innocent in the eyes of God. In the US, 71% agree. 65% of evangelicals agree that we're born innocent in the eyes of God. Now, one of the problems of that question is, what exactly does that mean? Does that mean they're denying original sin and born without a sinful nature? Studies like this aren't totally clear on that, but I'm definitely suspicious that the number of self-proclaimed evangelicals understand what original sin means and how that shapes the way we approach Jesus and the atonement.

>> I could see the idea that they're innocent could actually just refer to culpability.

>> It could be, but that-

>> And judgment. So that one I think is a little harder to tease that out.

>> I agree.

>> What about, I mean, and we've talked about the State of the Bible already, but the State of Theology has something to say about the views on the Bible too. What did they say?

>> Yeah, good question. It says, so the claim, the Bible, like all sacred writings, contains helpful accounts of ancient myths, but is not literally true. Okay, so the Bible has stories and myths, but is not literally true. US adults agreed with that in 2016, 44%. 53% in 2022. So just US adults as a whole drop about 10% over that six years. Evangelicals, 17% agreed it's not literally true in 2016. Now in 2022, it's 26%. Now that's a significant increase. My only qualifier to that is when it says the Bible is literally true. Like, does that mean the Psalms are literally true?

>> Does it make space for figurative language in poetry?

>> Yeah, like when somebody says the Bible's literally true, in my mind, I'm gonna kind of qualify that and say, I think what they mean is that there are objective truths within this, even though I don't think the Bible is literally true on every account when it's metaphorical, when there's parables and there's riddles that are told. So studies like this don't often bring out that nuance. And sometimes evangelicals can jump on this and say the sky is falling, but I just think we need to be careful.

>> I wonder if that had to do more with the narratives and especially the miracle accounts, that that's what the question actually was intended to tease out is, do you believe that the things that the Bible presents as narrative history are literally narrative history as opposed to myth or legend or some other kind of story that's divorced from history?

>> These are just important nuances when we see studies and statistics that are cited. How clear are they? What does the person who's responding mean by it? That's where we just try to have to have some wisdom and some care. But nonetheless, that increase over six years, 10%, does signify something about how evangelicals are viewing the Bible.

>> All right, just a couple more questions on this. I'm gonna combine both of these surveys together here for a moment. If you could speak to just the average Christian out there who's listening to this podcast, who may be a, you know, semi-regular church attender, you know, reads the Bible sporadically, probably has a modicum grasp of theology. What would you say to them based on the results of this study?

>> Well, I think I'd take that Christian aside and I'd ask 'em a few questions. You have a certain view of the church, you have a certain view of the word of God, you have certain view of the person of Jesus and salvation. Where are these ideas coming from? Because studies like this increasingly show that we're less Bible engaged as a whole. Our theology is suffering as a whole because of it. So what happens is something has to fill that vacuum.

>> Scott: So they're getting those views from somewhere.

>> We all have theological ideas. Like another one came out is every Christian has an obligation to join a local church. 2/3 of evangelicals agree with that. That means there are 1/3 of evangelicals who somehow have the theology, which is not biblical, that they don't need to go to a church.

>> My question might be, where are the other 2/3 who believe that?

>> That's fair. And these studies bring out oftentimes a disconnection between what somebody says and how they often live. That's very fair. So I'd probably just ask this person, I'd say, "Where are you honestly getting your theology from? Is it from the scriptures? Is it from the person of Jesus? Or is it from something larger that's going on in the culture? Why and why not?" So I wouldn't jump on that person with judgment. I don't have any interest in that, but I'd like to, I'd probably bring up some of these stats and maybe just ask them, "Hey, what do you think about the identity of Jesus? What do you think about the scriptures? What do you think about?" There's a few things in here on sexuality as well, and salvation. These kinds of questions are just great ways to engage somebody, especially if they say they're a Christian, but maybe are not theologically and ecclesiologically engaged.

>> You peak my interest here before we get into my second question here. What did the State of Theology say about sexuality?

>> So it said a few things, and I'll read a few here. Number one, they said gender identity is a matter of choice. The US, 38% in 2016. In 2022, it jumped to 42%. So in six years, 4% increase is actually not what I would've expected. Evangelicals in 2016, 32%. Evangelicals in 2022, 37%. So that means 1/3 of evangelicals would say gender identity is a matter of choice. Now, again, even the way that's framed, we've gotta be careful and nuance this. Even behind it, I suspect, people are answering this for different reasons without the clarity you and I would like. But it shows that. This one was interesting. The Bible's condemnation of homosexual behavior doesn't apply today. The US, 46%. Evangelicals in 2022, 28%. So over a quarter would just say seemingly agree that the Bible condemns same-sex sexual behavior, but it doesn't apply today, a quarter. That's interesting. Now, on the positive side, sex outside of traditional marriage is a sin. In 2022, 94% of evangelicals, according to this study, agreed with it. 94%.

>> Interesting.

>> So it raised three percentage points from 2016. And abortion is sin. In 2016, it was 87%. In 2022, 91% of evangelicals. So when we look at studies like this, we interpret it through a certain lens, at least I, maybe it's just me, I gravitate towards the negative concerning ones. I've gotta step back and say there's some positive trends. There's not as much nuance necessarily, clarity on some questions, but we've gotta be aware there's less Bible engagement and there is some concerning theology for sure. That's unmistakable.

>> All right. Question number two, to finish off with, what would you say if you could speak directly to pastors and church leaders about the State of the Bible and the State of Theology, what advice would you give them based on these two studies?

>> I would say a couple things. I'd say number one, to me, this is reason to double our efforts. Partly because the church from the beginning has always focused on and taught and emphasized good theology and avoiding errant doctrines. So today, with social media and endless means of communication, we have as great of a task as ever to teach good theology. But the other thing we gotta do is we also have to give people not only practical tools to study the Bible, but tools to show how this theology translates to their life. So when I teach on things like creation and I talk with students, I'll say, "Why does a doctrine of creation matter? Well, it affects something like bullying." And they'll look at me like, what are you talking about? I'll say, "Well, why shouldn't we bully? Well, because that person is made in the image of God. And we don't use people, we love people." I talk about theology of resurrection, and I'll say, "How does this affect our lives? This affects the way we face grief, Paul says, in 1 Thessalonians. We don't grieve like those without hope. We grieve like those with hope." I think sometimes we've thought we've taught theology intellectually, but not connected it to how somebody lives. That's where life change takes place. And I think there's a certain joy that comes from that as well. So teach good theology, but connect it to real life so people know how to better love their neighbors. And by the way, when we look at certain Christian teachings, often it's just good theology or it's just, here's how you have a good marriage, Christian living. Scripturally, Paul does both. In Romans and in his other letters, here's good theology, but this is what it means to love your neighbor. This is what it means to serve in church. This is what it means to care for your finances and your body, et cetera. That's what we need to do today with this generation.

>> So if our listeners and viewers wanted to find the study itself, where would they go to get it?

>> We'll put it in the notes below. But if you just search State of Theology 2022 or State of the Bible 2022, it'll pop up. You can download it, read it for yourself, and I would invite you to. And give us, you know, send us some of your thoughts on this if you see things differently. Awesome.

>> Well, I hope this has been helpful for you, Sean. Thanks for the way you have dived into this study and have made it come alive for us today. This has been so helpful. And for our listeners, this is our video version of our "Think Biblically" podcast. We would encourage you to subscribe to the audio version in whatever way you get your podcasts, brought to you by Talbot School of Theology here at Biola University. So glad you joined us today for this conversation on the State of the Bible and the State of Theology. [upbeat music]