An interview with Biola’s Joseph Gorra and author Holly Ordway

Before we talk about the book and how it was developed, let’s first talk about how you were an atheist?

I was not raised in any religious faith, and from a very young age I had a skeptical outlook. Religion seemed like a story that people told themselves, and I had no evidence to the contrary. The experience of going to college at a secular, liberal university just strengthened that tendency to assume that Christianity was a fairy tale, while naturalism and the secular worldview were what all serious thinkers believed.

What did you discover to be the most compelling feature about the Christian worldview and way of life?

I was startled to find that Christian theism had significantly better explanatory power than atheistic naturalism, in terms of explaining why the world is the way it is, and in accounting for my own experiences within it. Learning more about the Incarnation and about God, the most holy Trinity, has further reinforced my confidence that Christianity really does make sense of the world in a way no other worldview does.

So, how did your book, Not God’s Type, get developed? Can you walk us through the rationale and motivations for writing?

I never expected to write about my journey, but every time I talked to someone, I would get such a positive reaction that I started to realize that God wanted me to share this with others. At the prompting of a magazine editor whom I knew slightly, I wrote a magazine article about my journey. About six months later, out of the blue I got an email from an editor at Moody Publishers, asking me if I would consider writing a book for them. He had found the magazine on his desk, read my article, and tracked me down on the internet. At the time, I’d never even heard of Moody! We spent about a year working on getting a solid proposal together, and then in fall of 2008, they accepted the proposal and I got a contract to write the book. And here we are!

What was it like for you to write this book?

This is my first published book, but I have been writing since I was old enough to hold a pencil. (My first story was about squirrels.) I have written all sorts of things: a master’s thesis and a doctoral dissertation, newsletters, essays on personal finance, various half-baked attempts at fiction and poetry, and a great many DVD reviews. By the time I had the book contract, I also had been writing for my blog Hieropraxis for about a year and a half, exploring various aspects of the Christian journey. So in one sense, although this is my first book, I am a very experienced writer, and I have confidence in my own facility with language and my ability to revise my work.

Several things were different about writing this book, though! I struggled with the question of why I was writing it. Why should I write about my life? Was that being prideful? I realized, though, that in truth this is not my story, but the story of God’s grace. He is at the center of the book, not me.

I also found that it was emotionally and spiritually challenging. I was revisiting an intense time in my life, a time when my entire worldview shattered into pieces and I stepped forward into the unknown. As a writer, I felt confident with writing short essays, but this was a sustained narrative that needed coherence over the entire arc of the book. I also had a firm deadline. At times the combination of all those factors was terrifying.

What made a huge difference was being able to work closely with my pastor and spiritual director, Fr. Doran Stambaugh. We met many times over the course of my writing process to pray together and to discuss the challenges I was facing. He’s always been very clear with me that my writing is service on the front lines of spiritual warfare! Fr. Doran’s advice always came back to some form of “pray about it” – but he didn’t leave me with that, he helped teach me how to pray. In many ways, that was the greatest benefit of the entire writing process. I had to learn how to ask God for help on a daily and even hourly basis as I wrote, and my relationship with Christ really deepened as a result.

What do you hope to accomplish with this book that you might not have been able to accomplish with a strictly non-narrative text?

Many Christians are familiar with the ideas that atheists believe; what they don’t understand is what it’s like to believe those things. I hope to show, rather than tell, readers what it’s like to be on the other side of that line – so that their evangelism will be more effective.

What do you appreciate about memoir writing and reading?

Memoir writing is really an extension of the self-reflection that I do all the time. I’m not interested in just recounting something that I experienced; I want to make connections between that experience and something else, to help the reader (and myself) understand the world more fully and deeply.

I don’t read a lot of memoirs. I was very deeply moved by C.S. Lewis’ Surprised by Joy, though. Here was someone who was very much like me – who had gone through a very similar encounter with God. I feel a real kinship with Lewis.

What are the top 5 books that have most influenced your thinking to date?

C.S. Lewis’ Mere Christianity: Lewis helped me see that faith and reason are not opposed... and in fact that Christian faith makes sense on every level, philosophical and experiential. Many of Lewis’ other books have been tremendously important for me as well, but Mere Christianity is the first and central one for me.

N.T. Wright’s The Resurrection of the Son of God:  Wright is a brilliant scholar, and this book is a brilliant work of research. By the time I got to the end of it, I was convinced that the Resurrection was a fact of history.

Athanasius’ The Life of Antony: St. Antony of the Desert is one of my heroes of the Christian faith. My pastor lent me a copy of this book when I’d only been a Christian a few months, and I continue to re-visit it. The central theme of the book for me is that the spiritual world is real, and that spiritual warfare is real. Antony’s life shows us that if we call on Christ we will always be victorious.

The Way of the Pilgrim: This is the story of an anonymous Russian peasant who wanders the country, seeking to learn how to pray without ceasing. This book gave rise to many fruitful discussions with my pastor about prayer, and helped me understand that prayer can and should be something we offer to God constantly as we go about our daily lives.

The Book of Common Prayer: Over the last two years I have gradually taken on the discipline of daily morning and evening prayer, using the Book of Common Prayer for the Daily Office liturgy. As a result, prayer and reading Holy Scripture are part of my daily routine. This discipline of prayer has borne much fruit in my life already.

How has your training in Biola’s Master of Arts in Christian apologetics strengthened your authorship?

It has really informed and strengthened the writing I do for my blog, Hieropraxis. I am interested in the way that ideas affect culture, and the way that culture affects individuals, and I feel that several of my classes so far have helped me see more clearly the way that our culture works (and how and why it is going wrong).

My coursework in the Christian Apologetics program has directly strengthened my teaching ministry at my church. I am now one of the regular lecturers in our Sunday Adult Forum, and I draw heavily on what I have been learning at Biola to share with my fellow parishioners. For instance, I recently finished a two-week series on “Why Naturalism Is False, And Why It Matters”.

I am also working on a new book that I hope will be accepted for publication in the fall: this book is an argument for objective truth (that it exists, and that it is knowable, and worth knowing). This book is directly inspired by the work I did in Dr. Smith’s Ethics class.

How has your growth in your local church, St. Michael’s by-the-Sea, formed and nurtured you?

I could write a whole book on that! St. Michael’s has a strong commitment to teaching the Christian faith; I went through a nine-month catechumenate class before I was confirmed, and we have outstanding lectures by our clergy every Sunday, in addition to their preaching. We are blessed with amazing priests: each one with different gifts, each one a true man of God. Each one of them has spent many hours in discussion with me, answering questions, helping me apply the Word to my own life, praying with me and for me, and showing me what it means to love Christ and follow Him.

The worship at St. Michael’s has also been central to my growth as a Christian. We are a church in the Anglo-Catholic tradition, with a full sacramental life. Worship centered around the Eucharist has really been transformational for me – helping me draw closer to Jesus, not as an abstract idea but as our Savior, the Incarnate Son of God.

How has literature and being an English professor shaped you?

Poetry was one of the first ways that I heard a little bit of the Holy Spirit! I was profoundly moved by the poetry of John Donne, T.S. Eliot, and Gerard Manley Hopkins before I had any inkling that their faith was true.

Who are the top 3 people that have influentially shaped your life and calling?

For authors, I would say C.S. Lewis and N.T. Wright: their work and their example inspire me as a scholar, teacher, writer, and apologist.

I would then point to my spiritual director, Fr. Doran Stambaugh, and my senior pastor Fr. Ivor Kraft, as being key influences in my life. They have enthusiastically supported and encouraged me to use my gifts of intellect, writing, and teaching in the service of Christ.

Tell us about your website, hieropraxis.com. What will people find?

The subtitle of my website is “Truth, Beauty, and Christian Life”: it is a place where I explore the intersection of Christian truth with the world. It’s fairly wide-ranging; I write about apologetics topics, cultural issues, and aspects of Christian life. For instance, recently I have been writing on various aspects of prayer. I also write about literature, calling people’s attention to works of classic Christian poetry and other books that will help to deepen and strengthen their faith, and I review or comment on books that offer insights into our modern culture (whether the author is Christian or not). I am also fortunate to have brought on board as a contributing author my spiritual director Fr. Doran Stambaugh.

You are a skilled and competitive sabre fencer. How did that develop, and how is that integrated with who you are?

I have been fencing for 18 years now – I started as a freshman in college. I had never been interested in sports, but messing around with swords just sounded cool. (And it was.) Fencing made me into an athlete, helped me learn discipline, and gave me an anchor for when times got tough. Then, it was the place where God chose to start working in my life, as I recount in my book.

As a Christian, when I compete I commit my fencing to God as a way of glorifying Him, win or lose. When I fence at the top of my game, I feel most completely “myself”: an integrated body, mind, spirit all glorying in this gift that God gave me. I have enjoyed some high points, and I have also experienced many defeats and injuries: both have taught me a lot and helped me grow closer to Christ. I am particularly fortunate in that my coach is Christian; his expectations for me as an athlete are grounded in my relationship with God (putting Him first). Since he is a competitive fencer as well, he is also a great role model for me, to see how a mature Christian handles the stresses of competition.

How is Christian apologetics integrated with your ordinary life and work?

As a Christian working among many non-Christians, some of whom are very hostile to Christianity, I am always aware that the first apologetic argument is the witness of one’s own life.

If someone is, roughly, in the same spiritual, intellectual, and emotional place that you were once in as an atheist, how would you counsel and encourage them?

I would say: Look for the truth. Ask questions – and be willing to really think about the answers. Christianity is not an easy faith; anyone who tells you otherwise isn’t giving you the whole story. Stop relying on stereotypes of what you think Christians believe, and find out what the serious Christian thinkers say is true. But if you are truly willing to look for the truth, you have to be willing to recognize it when you find it – even if it goes against what you wish were the truth.

How might leaders in apologetics, evangelism, and discipleship training be strengthened as a result of paying attention to the features and factors of your story?

The word “faith” has all the wrong connotations in public discourse, so it would be a step forward in some ways to start talking more about knowledge and truth. I really like Dallas Willard’s work along those lines, especially his recent book Knowing Christ Today.

Really, it doesn’t matter whether we like Christianity or not; what matters is, Is it true? That approach may not resonate with everyone, but it was what opened the door for me.

Discipleship is critical. When I accepted Jesus as Savior, I had entered the Kingdom – but that was only the beginning of a new journey. I knew Christ was my Lord and God, but what did that mean in terms of my daily life? I knew that my life had to be different in some way, but how? I would never have been able to figure that out on my own, without the intensive discipling that I received at St Michael’s.

I think one of the central elements of my own discipleship so far has been my pastors’ focus on the Cross. The way of Jesus is the way of the cross. It is terribly painful to give up one’s sins and self-will, to allow one’s old self to be crucified along with Jesus... and I have been very grateful to my pastors who acknowledge how hard and painful it can be along this Christian journey. But the way of the cross is also the way of life and peace.

For more information, Jenna Bartlo, Media Relations Coordinator, can be reached at (562) 777-4061 or through email at .